Happy Wednesday!

Five things I am thankful for...

1. Colleagues who finally "get it."
2. Storm Windows.
3. Cell phones.
4. Cookie Dough.
5. Robot Chicken.

The Process Continues

This is a continuation of the series that started here. I have been internet chatting with a pastor I encountered in on a Christian Chat site. I had just recently "come out" to myself and was struggling to see myself as not as gay but as a pastor and person of integrity that also happens to be gay.

Hi Bill,
The psychologist in me began to think about the last message I sent. I was wondering why I felt the need to mention the porn. I guess I am still not ok with me checking out porn. In pastor mode; should I feel guilty about porn? I am not looking at it at work. I do ebb and flow with my usage of it. I do feel bad because people are doing this so I can get off to it. What is one supposed to do with sex drive when one is alone?My therapist would probably ask if I want you to get angry with me and chastise me. Maybe I am still looking for a reason to say that I am a bad and evil person, not fit to live.

Thanks again

Ben

Ben,
I'm barely awake yet so forgive me if this goes astray or makes little sense. I think you told me for two reasons: one, you may want to be chastised; two, you needed to tell someone.

Right off the bat you should know I'm not going to chastise you. That's not what I do. I listen and try to help. As far as I'm concerned, chastisement is not help, it's a motivator by guilt and I think our church has used quite enough of that over the years. That and I don't think Jesus was a guilt-tripper.

The problem with porn, beyond the fact that it is exceptionally tempting because it appeals to our deep instincts, is the moral quandary it causes. On the one hand, there are those who use it to deal with their drives in the alone times. I'd rather see that than dangerous promiscuity any day. And there are monogamous couples who use it to rekindle flames that have perhaps dwindled over time. I think there are times when it can be healthy.

That being said, there are also times when it can be horribly unhealthy. I'm not even going to argue about the conditions in the adult industry itself, I don't know enough about it, beyond reports made by those who already have an axe to grind. I'm talking about the addictive qualities it can have. I think if porn use stands in the way of a regular, healthy expression of God's gift of sexuality, then it's a problem. Trouble is, that is the case for quite a few people. This is indeed a thick, messy topic.

So, in other news, I'm glad that you laid back and laughed and had a heart to heart with God. It sounds as though you're coming to terms with your sexuality gradually, and dealing appropriately with issues raised by your discernment. This does my heart glad.

Talk with you again soon.

Shalom,

Bill

Five Things I Am Thankful For...

1. Sand in my shoes.
2. Hugs and kisses.
3. Fog on the lake.
4. Compassionate friends.
5. Kitties that cuddle.

The coming out process of a pastor.

The whole thing starts here.

Um, what now?


Good Morning Bill,

Hope things are going well with you. Hope the weekend was worshipful.

I have to kind of laugh this morning. I woke up, Said "Good morning" to God and then just kind of laid there. I though, "Ok, so I am gay. Now what do I do?" And I had to laugh. After the rollercoaster of the past weeks, it seems kind of strange.

I know that eventually I will have to talk to my family, but they are hundreds of miles away and it will be a while before it needs to effect them. Eventually I will have to talk to my associate too, but that is a while away. Right now I have not done (nor forsee doing in the near future) anything that would cause the heirarchy of the church to roll its' eyes. Ok, confesion moment, I have checked out some of the porn sites, but this is not a new behavior, just the sites have changed. History tells that this behavior will slow down too.

So, I am kind of feeling a little disoriented after all the emotion. Back to the cleaning the litterbox and mopping the bathroom. I guess that is good.

Thanks for your ear,

Ben

More coming out!

Here is where the story starts.

Hi Bill,

What is your take on Jesus' words about lusting in your heart? I have been noticing this more since I have not been blocking any feeling I may have toward a man. I hate to admit it, but it is kind of fun! I have never felt this before. I am starting to understand what my friends meant when they talked about their girlfriends. Part of me says I should block these thought, another part says to let them play out and eventually they will receed into the background. The more I pay attention to them, even to try to block them, the more "important" I make them. Any thoughts?

Ben,

I think Jesus used a lot of hyperbole, making gross exaggerations for illustrative purposes. I think lustful thoughts when you're otherwise committed can be dangerous, but for single people ... sometimes it's all you have. Jesus also said to amputate yourself or poke out an eye if it causes you to sin, but no one actually does it. I think it has more to do with discipline.

I would agree that trying to shut out thoughts only causes them to become more fierce. Let them play out ... fantasy is healthy. To repress these thoughts and feelings can turn them into dangerous obsession, and then you have a whole new world of trouble. My vote is to enjoy it - God gives us imagination for a reason, and our sexuality is a precious gift inside of that. I say go for it!

Clearing out...

Well, I have been moving stuff out of my office. People have always been giving me a hassel about the state of my office. So, now they are getting a clean office. Actually, it will get cleaner and cleaner. But is it worth the cost to get it clean? I am trying not to be passive-agressive about this. I could take everything off the walls and have people wonder what is going on...

No, I will just slowly move things home and not push the issue.

Coming Clean...

Well, I decided to tell the senior pastor that I was gay and that I was planning on leaving in August.

At first, his response was very caring and compassionat; what you would expect from a pastor, right? But then came lunch...

After I came back from lunch, I was told that I had to call the bishop TODAY!!!! No reasoning would change his mind. I was bad and I needed to tell the bishop. The pastoral care was gone! I was in violation of the ELCA and that was that.

Obviously, I was hurt and angry.

Some background: I was planning on sticking around until August because I said I would take a group of kids Texas in July and that I would be here for the senior pastor to go on a cruise with his family. If it were not for these things, I would have left in November. However, I figured it would be difficult for them to find an adult to take a bunch of kids to Texas in July so I would stay until then.

Now the pastor is all afraid that people will freak out because a gay pastor is taking their kids.

1. If I was going to abuse their kids, would I be telling anyone? Wouldn't it be better if I just stuck quietly around?

2. Let the people deal with their prejudices!

3. Who is going to tell that I am gay? It is none of their business.

The senior pastor confronted me again, asking when I was going to talk to the bishop.

I then had to explain that I couldn't just storm into the ELCA bishop's office. There was more going on here. The Episcopal church had some say in this as that would be where I was transferring. If the ELCA bishop decided to centure me, it would not be a whole lot off of his back. It would not be a whole lot off of the senior pastor's back. It could mean I lose my home, car, job... The congregation could be reeling for years to come.

He was still adamant that I say something. I asked if he was trying to hurt me? If so, why don't we take me outside and start the stoning; if the intent is to hurt me, why not make it tangible.

I then confronted him and said he was afraid of the bishop getting upset with him. He agreed. I explained in the course of this, he has the LEAST to lose. The bishops tenure will be done in a year or two anyway. Even if the bishop get's angry that the senior pastor didn't say anything, it won't last. However, if this is handeled wrong, the congregation will be feeling it for years as will I.

I also tried to make it clear that I didn't want to become the poster child of the ELCA's struggle with gay pastors, but it wasn't outside of the picture. If the media needed to be brought in, so be it. If this becomes a national news story, so be it.

The good thing is it seems that he has come to the conclusion that maybe jumping in unprepared is not such a good thing. The senior pastor is allowing me to get some things in order first.

We shall see...

Happy Easter!

He's Just Not That Into You...

I read the book He's Just Not That Into You and found it interesting. But then I was watching the Maury show and I came up with a new one...

If he calls you onto the Maury show and accuses you of sleeping with his mother's boyfriend and calls you a slut on national TV, he's just not that into you.

I don't care how much you "love" this guy, woman, DUMP HIM! You can do better!

The commercialization of everything. I thought this picture was quite telling.

Just a nice pic to help you float through your day.

Deeper into the process of coming to grips with myself. The process begins here.

Greetings and Salutations,

Thanks for your kindness. My shrink is also happy that I have found a confidant.

(I typed this once but it disappeared into eletronic ether) After talking with my shrink, I am really considering finding a different denomination. It will take another 4-8 years for anything to happen again with the ELCA. The thought of living in duplicity for that long is too tiring.

Even though I live in a fairly large city(about 500,000 people), as a pastor I am still known in public. A long distance relationship is also difficult considering the cost of gas and the large amounts of time we pastors have off (ha ha!).

I consider my therapy appointments almost sacramental. I feel more like I have confessed and have been forgiven when I leave then I ever did when I was Catholic and went to confession. It is wonderful to be able to express all those things I feel would cause people to reject me if they knew and then be told that I am still loved and respected.

Thanks to you, too. Sorry if I keep stating this, but when you grow up thinking that your life was a mistake and that you are "damaged", someone you can be "real" with is a special treasure.

Peace and Blessings,

Benton

Benton,

I'm glad to hear that you do sometimes get to see some light your life. I can understand your thinking about changing denominations, and probably would be doing the same in similar circumstances.

I think it's great that you have that sort of relationship with your therapist. It's nice to feel forgiven and loved.

As for me, I think I'm familiar enough with feeling like a "mistake" and "damaged". I think I might be helpful because I can sympathize, if not empathize, with your position. Not precisely, but definitely close by in the neighborhood. I am happy to listen, and thank you for the blessing this conversation is. It helps me in ways you aren't even aware.

Shalom,

Bill

More of the coming out process. The whole process started here.

Hey Bill,

Couldn't sleep so I thought I would try dumping my thoughts and see if that helps.

I find it interesting how I have been trying to convince myself that I am the same person I have always been. That this "revelation" has not changed me. But it has. It has ... Well, it has caused me to rethink who I am and how I function in the world. I hate that thought that the kids that tormented me by calling me "fag" all of my life may be right. I guess it is like a pendulum; right now it is swinging in the gay direction but hopefullly it will return to neutral and allow me to just be me. I want to get to the position again of thinking of myself as Benton not as Gay Benton.

How do I tell this to my family? (the eternally difficult question) I have never even had sex with a man so technically I am not gay even though this is just a technicality. I have been living on the hope of that technicality all of my life it seems.

You know, they talk about how kids aren't sexual, but I remember being intreagued by the bulges in the jumpsuits of the men on Star Trek when I was a kid. It stands out as something that drew my attention. I may be attributing cause after the fact thought.

Maybe I can get some sleep. Long day tomorrow. We have a program with the neighborhood kids that lasts until 8 pm so it is a full day. I also meet with my shrink tomorrow too. Hopefully that time will be productive.

Thanks and good night.

Benton

Benton,

I hope this helped, and hope you had a productive day and a good appointment.

As far as telling your family ... I've never heard of a better way than just building your courage and telling them. You'll definitely be surprised by the result, and the fallout may be difficult. I think you may want to be clear and honest with yourself first, before bringing your family into it. That's just me, you may handle it in a totally different way.

As for not being gay because you've never had sex with a man ... that's like saying a heterosexual virgin isn't a heterosexual yet. If you're gay, you're gay. You just haven't acted on it yet. I think the Star Trek comment may go to show it, maybe not. Hindsight does tend to be 20/20, after all. But I'm also hearing a tone that maybe you're trying to talk yourself out of being gay. I'm not sure that will work, and I don't think you'd be struggling with this as much as you obviously are if you weren't. I continue to pray that God gives your strength and guidance on your journey of self-discernment.

Shalom,

Bill

The journey continues. If you have just joined, here is where the process started. In the reply, the doubly indented parts are quotes from my original letter. I left them there because of how Bill replied. It take them out would make the reply difficult to understand.


Hi Bill

I don't know if you have heard but the ELCA has voted not to allow practicing homosexuals as pastors. It was a fairly close vote but it was voted down just the same.

If the vote had gone the other direction, things would have been better. But they didn't. I think it is so sad the amount of celebrating that I see occurring.

I have asked God for what seems like my whole life, "Why can't I just be like eveyone else?" I so much don't want to be the center of attention. Seems like God has other plans for me.

It may seem strange that I am only now coming to grips with this. I probably should have dealt with it earlier but, as I said, I so badly want to be like everyone else, feel like everyone else. Not stand-out in a crowd. I have just started to accept the part of me that find men sexually attractive. In the past, I would see someone I found attractive and then mentally beat myself for such thoughts. I have begun trying to not beat myself for such thoughts.

I appreciate your comment about being a servant of Christ, not necessarily a servant of the Lutheran Church. The church itself has not been overly helpful to me in my tenure with it. My first call ended with me almost catatonic due to a sick congregational system. Out of the three previous pastors and the one that followed me, my time of two years was one of the longest. But they left me without a call, without insurence, and a $170/month Zoloft perscription. I felt totally abandoned by them. Feels like they are abandoning me again.

Sorry to drivel on and on. I guess in writing to you I get my thoughts in order.

Peace, and thanks

Benton

I don't know if you have heard but the ELCA has voted not to allow practicing homosexuals as pastors. It was a fairly close vote but it was voted down just the same.

If the vote had gone the other direction, things would have been better. But they didn't. I think it is so sad the amount of celebrating that I see occurring

.

I had heard a vote was coming, and was hoping it would have gone the other way as well. I have to agree that rejoicing in continued discrimination is a sad thing, that happens in too many of our churches.

I have asked God for what seems like my whole life, "Why can't I just be like eveyone else?" I so much don't want to be the center of attention. Seems like God has other plans for me.

This is a familiar quote I have heard from my GLBT friends and parishioners. Funny thing is, everyone with a large gift says something similar. I used to pray this to God all the time, because I was brighter than many of my classmates when I was younger. Some things God just won't take away, no matter how much we pray to the contrary.

It may seem strange that I am only now coming to grips with this. I probably should have dealt with it earlier but, as I said, I so badly want to be like everyone else, feel like everyone else. Not stand-out in a crowd. I have just started to accept the part of me that find men sexually attractive. In the past, I would see someone I found attractive and then mentally beat myself for such thoughts. I have begun trying to not beat myself for such thoughts.

This doesn't seem strange to me at all. Many GLBT people I've met struggle with these issues their whole lives, especially those who pray to be like everyone else. I think you are taking a step in the right direction, by not doing damage to yourself for a part of yourself that is beyond your control, and in my opinion, quite beyond your capacity to change without doing great violence to who you are.

I appreciate your comment about being a servant of Christ, not necessarily a servant of the Lutheran Church. The church itself has not been overly helpful to me in my tenure with it. My first call ended with me almost catatonic due to a sick congregational system. Out of the three previous pastors and the one that followed me, my time of two years was one of the longest. But they left me without a call, without insurence, and a $170/month Zoloft perscription. I felt totally abandoned by them. Feels like they are abandoning me again.

That is shameful, truly shameful, that congregations treat pastors this way. But it happens more often than we think. I always try to keep in mind that I am a servant of God first, and sometimes that means taking positions that may be unpopular to a congregation - even positions that might cost me my job. It's a great leap of faith for me to do it, and some days I struggle mightily with it, praying that the cup should pass from me. Then I remember that the One in whose steps I am trying faithfully to follow was faithful even to the cross, and then I feel ashamed of being worried about keeping a job.

Sorry to drivel on and on. I guess in writing to you I get my thoughts in order.
Peace, and thanks
Benton

Hey. It's no problem listening to you, and you could talk much longer than you do. I'm glad to be of help, and you of all people know that one of the primary jobs of a pastor is to listen. I'm happy to have the opportunity to be a place of trust and welcome that you can talk about whatever you'd like.

May God continue to bless your life and ministry.

Shalom,

Bill

The guy I have been seeing, Nick, decided I needed something that had a rainbow on it. So yesterday, when he came to visit, he brought this to me. Isn't it cute!

I thought this was kind of neat!

The next installment

Here is the next installment of my struggle. If you missed the first part, it is here. If you find this helpful let me know. If you find it self-indulgent, let me know. I just hope it can help someone.

Thanks Bill,

What is frightening to me is that the ELCA is not very open and there are members of my congregation who are not very open.

In the ELCA, it is ok to be GLBT just as long as you don't do anything about it. The thought of staying in denial is just sapping all of my energy. I have hated myself for so long, I am trying to come to grips with it.

I have always felt that there was something wrong with me and unfortunately, the church doesn't do much to help that feeling. I was reaised Roman Catholic and the way I felt was never anything discussed.

Now I am afraid of what this will entail. I don't want to remain single and celebate all of my life but I also don't want to be sneeking around so no one knows. I feel my call is real but if I searched for a mate, I would be in violation of the ELCA. I feeling like I am living a lie.

My therapist has suggested other denominations but that seems drastic.

Thank you, there is something comforting in telling another person.

Peace to you,

Benton

Benton,

More denominations than not are not open to GLBT persons. The ELCA is just one of a very long list. I must admit that as I read your note, my first thought was changing denominations, but I agree with you that it is a drastic situation. It is also, it seems, to be the "easiest" solution to your conundrum. If you were to change denominations, to one where they are open and affirming to GLBT persons, especially clergy, you would no longer have to live a lie. But ... that isn't exactly loyal to your tradition, either.

A question to consider is this: are you called by God to be an ELCA minister, or a minister of God's church? Not to say that the ELCA isn't God's church, but it is one denomination in the diverse Body of Christ. As I see it, I can discern three options at present (not to limit myself, more may become apparent in your struggle):

One - Remain celibate, pray to God for strength in this area, and remain (quite probably) unhappy.

Two - Roll the dice and take your chances. Be willing to stand up and speak your truth in love, that you are gay, that you are called, that you are a minister of God's church. You are a loved creation of God, just like everyone else, and God wouldn't have created you gay and then given you gifts for ministry, and then given you a call, and then opened doors for you, only to watch you squirm and be unhappy. What is God speaking to you in this situation? Is it "be unhappy, I enjoy watching you suffer" or perhaps something like "be a prophetic voice in this denomination, and work toward helping your congregation, or perhaps the denomination, be more open and inclusive to all people"? In my experience, it is probably the latter, but you're the one who needs to discern what God is calling you to do in this situation.

Or, Three: change denominations, find one where you are affirmed for who you are, not despite it.

Always keep in mind that God calls us for ministry, and we are called just as we are, not how the congregation or our denominations want us to be. Also, God wills for us to live the best we can without impinging on the rights of others to live as best they can, always moving creation toward the Kingdom. I think the Kingdom includes everyone in love, not just in tolerance. Let me know if there's any way I can help lighten the cross you've been given.

I'll be praying for you. May you hear the voice of the Lord in the silent spaces.

Bill

The Process Begins

I think I am going to post these. They are a series of posts between myself and a person I met through a chat room. It documents my process of coming to an understanding of what it means to be not only a gay man but a gay pastor. Any identifying information has been changed.

Pastor Bill,

I have a question I want to ask you. First some background on me. I am a pastor in an ELCA congregation and am still new to my community. I have friends in the congregation and I have colleagues. What I don't have is a pastoral presence. This would not be bad except I am going through the process of coming out to myself and to those around me. As you know, the ELCA is not really cool with gay clergy. I am having difficulty in that I have heard the fundamentalist arguments for so long that I believe them on some level.

In reading your posts, you seem like a well balanced and compassionate person. What I would like is to be able to PM you with questions or concerns.

I would prefer to have someone here where I live to talk to but that is not really a possibility. I have a therapist, although he is great, he is also Jewish. We can discuss on one level but there are sill some areas we cannot discuss.

If you could help me, I would greatly appreciate that. If not, I can understand that also. Either way, I appreciate you time.

Peace,
Dr. Benton Quest

Benton,

I would be honored to help in any way I may be able. To give you some background, I am a pastor in a Christian Church. My denom recently voted at a General Assembly to reaffirm our commitment to a discernment process regarding GLBT persons, and although the congregation I currently serve is not open and affirming (they are don't ask don't tell) I consider myself to be an Open and Affirming clergy person.

Godspeed on your journey of discernment and liberation.

Yours in Christ,

Bill

Hi,
Kinda new to this blogging thing but I hope to provide something (if only a place for me to vent!)

You will probably find nothing overly titilating (or penisilating?) here, but I hope to give some insight in my struggle to be a gay man of integrity in a somewhat mixed-up world.

If you are looking for some eye candy or some fantasy fodder, I would suggest Completely Naked or The Great Cock Hunt.